Discussion:
[KL] Replacement SCSI HDs
Matthew Rubenstein email@mattruby.com [KurzList]
2017-08-09 19:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Hi. I have a K2600XS and I'm thinking of replacing its original
internal SCSI HD before it fails. I have a new in box vintage Seagate
"Cheetah 10K.7" 3.5" internal SCSI HD, model#: ST373207LC . Will that
work?

Is there any special procedure required for the swap, beyond
just plugging it into the existing drive's data and power cables and
screwing it into the same place? Like adding terminating resistors or
other HW, some variation on power supply, resetting any configuration
(maybe because it's more GB than the original)? How do I format the new
HD? I plan on plugging the old HD into a PC and copying its contents to
the new HD before installing the new HD, but maybe plugging both into
the K2600XS lets me us a builtin utility to transfer the old contents.

Thanks for your insights.
dan@theluthers.net [KurzList]
2017-08-10 00:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Seagate "Cheetah 10K.7" 3.5" internal SCSI HD, model#: ST373207LC . Will that work?
Not without some help.

Aside from being a 73GB drive where the Kurzweils of this era only supported up to 9GB using SCSI-1 8 bit mode, the ST373207LC is an Ultra-320 Low Voltage Differential (LVD) and has an 80-pin SCA connector. You'll need to drop the 32-bit bus down to 8 bit, and select Single Ended mode (SE) instead of differential.

You might be able to use a very small partition on this drive with an SCA->IDC50 adapter that has high-byte termination, like the 460I2CN80MF from Ram Electronics: https://www.ramelectronics.net/460i2cn80mf.aspx https://www.ramelectronics.net/460i2cn80mf.aspx

You'll need to set your drive for "single-ended" mode, and the adapter should take care of the translation.

Here's the manual for the Cheetah drives, which explains how to set the jumpers for SCSI ID and single-ended mode: http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/scsi/cheetah_10k7_scsi_pm.pdf http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/scsi/cheetah_10k7_scsi_pm.pdf

And finally, what Kurzweil has to say about installing newer, larger drives in the older machines: http://kurzweil.com/knowledgebase/k2000/disk_mode_drives_and_scsi/21/ http://kurzweil.com/knowledgebase/k2000/disk_mode_drives_and_scsi/21/

As I mentioned, you're not going to get 73GB of usable hard drive. If it works at all, you'll need to format the drive with active partitions that don't exceed the maximum size, and to be honest I haven't spent any time formatting drives on a Kurzweil, or know if they support multiple partitions. The manuals state the max size is 2GB, but that may be "per partition." In any event, a lot of your drive will be wasted space.

I've got a ton of these 10K 73G drives lying about -- I might actually try this myself, but I'm more inclined to go the SD adapter route.
Matthew Rubenstein email@mattruby.com [KurzList]
2017-08-10 01:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the detailed "not worth it" :). I've already got a
SCSI CompactFlash drive replacing my floppy drive. Now I just have to
find someplace to liquidate these Seagate drives.
Seagate "Cheetah 10K.7" 3.5" internal SCSI HD, model#: ST373207LC
. Will that work?
Not without some help.
Aside from being a 73GB drive where the Kurzweils of this era only
supported up to 9GB using SCSI-1 8 bit mode, the ST373207LC is an
Ultra-320 Low Voltage Differential (LVD) and has an 80-pin SCA
connector. You'll need to drop the 32-bit bus down to 8 bit, and
select Single Ended mode (SE) instead of differential.
You might be able to use a very small partition on this drive with an
SCA->IDC50 adapter that has high-byte termination, like the
460I2CN80MF from Ram Electronics: https://www.ramelectronics.net/460i
2cn80mf.aspx
You'll need to set your drive for "single-ended" mode, and the
adapter should take care of the translation.
Here's the manual for the Che etah drives, which explains how to set
the jumpers for SCSI ID and single-ended mode: http://www.seagate.com
/support/disc/manuals/scsi/cheetah_10k7_scsi_pm.pdf
And finally, what Kurzweil has to say about installing newer, larger
drives in the older machines: http://kurzweil.com/knowledgebase/k2000
/disk_mode_drives_and_scsi/21/
As I mentioned, you're not going to get 73GB of usable hard drive. If
it works at all, you'll need to format the drive with active
partitions that don't exceed the maximum size, and to be honest I
haven't spent any time formatting drives on a Kurzweil, or know if
they support multiple partitions. The manuals state the max size is
2GB, but that may be "per partition." In any event, a lot of y our
drive will be wasted space.
I've got a ton of these 10K 73G drives lying about -- I might
actually try this myself, but I'm more inclined to go the SD adapter
route.
--
***@Blue-Green-Group.com
718-233-5097
'papabo@citlink.net' papabo@citlink.net [KurzList]
2017-08-10 11:14:37 UTC
Permalink
As an alternative, I discovered the scsi2sd board.  It replaces the floppy drive on the k2000.  It allows the capacity of however many 2gb partitions as a chosen sd card will provide.  No noise, no heat. It's fantastic.  Can be found with an Internet search.  Robert K

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 3:09 PM, "Matthew Rubenstein ***@mattruby.com [KurzList]" <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Hi. I have a K2600XS and I'm thinking of replacing its original
internal SCSI HD before it fails. I have a new in box vintage Seagate
"Cheetah 10K.7" 3.5" internal SCSI HD, model#: ST373207LC . Will that
work?

Is there any special procedure required for the swap, beyond
just plugging it into the existing drive's data and power cables and
screwing it into the same place? Like adding terminating resistors or
other HW, some variation on power supply, resetting any configuration
(maybe because it's more GB than the original)? How do I format the new
HD? I plan on plugging the old HD into a PC and copying its contents to
the new HD before installing the new HD, but maybe plugging both into
the K2600XS lets me us a builtin utility to transfer the old contents.

Thanks for your insights.
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Matthew Rubenstein email@mattruby.com [KurzList]
2017-08-10 14:02:00 UTC
Permalink
Like this one for $73?
https://www.ebay.com/i/192171802912

I think it also requires a bracket for mounting in the floppy drive
bay, like this $19 one:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/XMF5EE7W8/scsi2sd-v5-bracket

That bracket listing says it's for K2000R/K2500R, I wonder if it fits
K2600XS or K2600R.
Post by '***@citlink.net' ***@citlink.net [KurzList]
As an alternative, I discovered the scsi2sd board.  It replaces the
floppy drive on the k2000.  It allows the capacity of however many
2gb partitions as a chosen sd card will provide.  No noise, no heat.
It's fantastic.  Can be found with an Internet search.  
Robert K
 
Hi. I have a K2600XS and I'm thinking of replacing its original
internal SCSI HD before it fails. I have a new in box vintage Seagate
"Cheetah 10K.7" 3.5" internal SCSI HD, model#: ST373207LC . Will that
work?
Is there any special procedure required for the swap, beyond
just plugging it into the existing drive's data and power cables and
screwing it into the same place? Like adding terminating resistors or
other HW, some variation on power supply, resetting any configuration
(maybe because it's more GB than the original)? How do I format the new
HD? I plan on plugging the old HD into a PC and copying its contents to
the new HD before installing the new HD, but maybe plugging both into
the K2600XS lets me us a builtin utility to transfer the old
contents.
Thanks for your insights.
Jacob Vosmaer contact@jacobvosmaer.nl [KurzList]
2017-08-10 15:21:44 UTC
Permalink
I ordered my bracket from here:

http://durhamcardco.com/

A few dollars less than Shapeways. I wonder if it's the same seller.

You need to match the bracket to the version of the SCSI2SD device you're
using: v5 or v6. http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=
SCSI2SD#Which_version_should_you_buy_.3F

Depending on where in the world you live, http://shop.codesrc.com/ may be a
slightly cheaper source for the SCSI2SD itself. I bought mine there (I live
in Europe).

I'm using a SCSI2SD v6 in a K2000R and it works great. The only thing that
is less than perfect is that the power cable is a little tight. I'm
powering it from the floppy cable, and a floppy drive is deeper than a
SCSI2SD. I think the SCSI2SD v5 takes a molex connector meaning that you
can't re-use the floppy power cable without some sort of adapter.

I made a short SCSI cable with 50-pin IDC connectors and the whole thing
just worked, no need to change anything about SCSI termination. When making
a new 50-pin cable pay close attention to the orientation of the
connectors. The Kurzweil internal SCSI IDC connector (at least in the
K2000R) connects in reverse from the one on the SCSI2SD. Pay attention to
where pin 1 is and the red wire of the ribbon cable. If you mix it up (I
did) the Kurzweil won't boot.

Cheers, Jacob
Post by Matthew Rubenstein ***@mattruby.com [KurzList]
Like this one for $73?
https://www.ebay.com/i/192171802912
I think it also requires a bracket for mounting in the floppy drive
https://www.shapeways.com/product/XMF5EE7W8/scsi2sd-v5-bracket
That bracket listing says it's for K2000R/K2500R, I wonder if it fits
K2600XS or K2600R.
As an alternative, I discovered the scsi2sd board. It replaces the
floppy drive on the k2000. It allows the capacity of however many
2gb partitions as a chosen sd card will provide. No noise, no heat.
It's fantastic. Can be found with an Internet search.
Robert K
Hi. I have a K2600XS and I'm thinking of replacing its original
internal SCSI HD before it fails. I have a new in box vintage Seagate
"Cheetah 10K.7" 3.5" internal SCSI HD, model#: ST373207LC . Will that
work?
Is there any special procedure required for the swap, beyond
just plugging it into the existing drive's data and power cables and
screwing it into the same place? Like adding terminating resistors or
other HW, some variation on power supply, resetting any configuration
(maybe because it's more GB than the original)? How do I format the new
HD? I plan on plugging the old HD into a PC and copying its contents to
the new HD before installing the new HD, but maybe plugging both into
the K2600XS lets me us a builtin utility to transfer the old
contents.
Thanks for your insights.
Matthew Rubenstein email@mattruby.com [KurzList]
2017-08-10 15:52:38 UTC
Permalink
These are great essential details.

Someday maybe this helpful community will extract all this lore
from the list archives and fill a KurzWiki with it.


On Thu, 2017-08-10 at 17:21 +0200, Jacob Vosmaer
Post by Jacob Vosmaer ***@jacobvosmaer.nl [KurzList]
http://durhamcardco.com/
A few dollars less than Shapeways. I wonder if it's the same seller.
You need to match the bracket to the version of the SCSI2SD device
you're using: v5 or v6. http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?ti
tle=SCSI2SD#Which_version_should_you_buy_.3F 
Depending on where in the world you live, http://shop.codesrc.com/
may be a slightly cheaper source for the SCSI2SD itself. I bought
mine there (I live in Europe).
I'm using a SCSI2SD v6 in a K2000R and it works great. The only thing
that is less than perfect is that the power cable is a little tight.
I'm powering it from the floppy cable, and a floppy drive is deeper
than a SCSI2SD. I think the SCSI2SD v5 takes a molex connector
meaning that you can't re-use the floppy power cable without some
sort of adapter.
I made a short SCSI cable with 50-pin IDC connectors and the whole
thing just worked, no need to change anything about SCSI termination.
When making a new 50-pin cable pay close attention to the orientation
of the connectors. The Kurzweil internal SCSI IDC connector (at least
in the K2000R) connects in reverse from the one on the SCSI2SD. Pay
attention to where pin 1 is and the red wire of the ribbon cable. If
you mix it up (I did) the Kurzweil won't boot.
Cheers, Jacob
Post by Matthew Rubenstein ***@mattruby.com [KurzList]
 
Like this one for $73?
https://www.ebay.com/i/192171802912
I think it also requires a bracket for mounting in the floppy drive
https://www.shapeways.com/product/XMF5EE7W8/scsi2sd-v5-bracket
That bracket listing says it's for K2000R/K2500R, I wonder if it fits
K2600XS or K2600R.
As an alternative, I discovered the scsi2sd board.  It replaces
the
floppy drive on the k2000.  It allows the capacity of however
many
2gb partitions as a chosen sd card will provide.  No noise, no
heat.
It's fantastic.  Can be found with an Internet search.  
Robert K
 
 
attr
 
 
 
Hi. I have a K2600XS and I'm thinking of replacing its original
internal SCSI HD before it fails. I have a new in box vintage
Seagate
"Cheetah 10K.7" 3.5" internal SCSI HD, model#: ST373207LC . Will
that
work?
 
Is there any special procedure required for the swap, beyond
just plugging it into the existing drive's data and power cables
and
screwing it into the same place? Like adding terminating
resistors or
other HW, some variation on power supply, resetting any
configuration
(maybe because it's more GB than the original)? How do I format
the
new
HD? I plan on plugging the old HD into a PC and copying its
contents
to
the new HD before installing the new HD, but maybe plugging both
into
the K2600XS lets me us a builtin utility to transfer the old contents.
 
Thanks for your insights.
 
 
 
dan@theluthers.net [KurzList]
2017-08-11 17:33:25 UTC
Permalink
Jacob,

Since you've got the SCSI2SD v6, do you know if the mounting holes in that card are the same for a 2.5" drive? I only ask because it would be easy to get the 2.5->3.5 plastic mounting plate/bracket for ~$3.00US.

Also, does your K2600 have the built-in SCSI active termination board? I'd want to use a couple/three of these in my K2500RS/XS/2600RS, and while I haven't yet opened up the K2600R, I do know the two K2500RS units (and almost assuredly the K2500XS) don't have that board, and they're nearly impossible to find.

Alex -- ideas on acquiring a handful of these?
Jacob Vosmaer contact@jacobvosmaer.nl [KurzList]
2017-08-12 08:40:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dan,

I don't know if the mounting holes are the same as a 2.5" hard drive. My
SCSI2SD is built in now so I can't easily have a look at it. You could try
asking the SCSI2SD creator at codesrc.com. On his website I see he also has
a board that is meant to replace 2.5" Macintosh hard drives. But that might
not be what you need, best would be to ask him.

I have a K2000R, I don't know if that has a SCSI termination board add-on.
From what I remember, to disable built-in termination in the K2000R I would
have had to cut/remove some resistors. But because I have no other SCSI
devices besides the SCSI2SD I seem to somehow be getting away without
having made any changes.

I do know that the SCSI2SD has software configurable termination, maybe
that helps.

Cheers, Jacob
Post by ***@theluthers.net [KurzList]
Jacob,
Since you've got the SCSI2SD v6, do you know if the mounting holes in that
card are the same for a 2.5" drive? I only ask because it would be easy to
get the 2.5->3.5 plastic mounting plate/bracket for ~$3.00US.
Also, does your K2600 have the built-in SCSI active termination board? I'd
want to use a couple/three of these in my K2500RS/XS/2600RS, and while I
haven't yet opened up the K2600R, I do know the two K2500RS units (and
almost assuredly the K2500XS) don't have that board, and they're nearly
impossible to find.
Alex -- ideas on acquiring a handful of these?
dan@theluthers.net [KurzList]
2017-08-13 14:03:14 UTC
Permalink
I sent them a message on their form, and Michael McMaster responded:

Yes. It will fit in some 2.5" to 3.5" adapters. The scsi2sd is wider than a 2.5" drive though, so it won't work with adapters that limit the width.


So, the 2.5" to 3.5" sled-style adapters made for SSDs should be a good ticket for mounting these.
Caleb Garner caleb.garner@gmail.com [KurzList]
2017-08-10 14:07:47 UTC
Permalink
I would love to know if this is good too because this is one of the best price i’ve seen on one of these.
Post by Matthew Rubenstein ***@mattruby.com [KurzList]
Like this one for $73?
https://www.ebay.com/i/192171802912 <https://www.ebay.com/i/192171802912>
I think it also requires a bracket for mounting in the floppy drive
https://www.shapeways.com/product/XMF5EE7W8/scsi2sd-v5-bracket <https://www.shapeways.com/product/XMF5EE7W8/scsi2sd-v5-bracket>
That bracket listing says it's for K2000R/K2500R, I wonder if it fits
K2600XS or K2600R.
As an alternative, I discovered the scsi2sd board. It replaces the
floppy drive on the k2000. It allows the capacity of however many
2gb partitions as a chosen sd card will provide. No noise, no heat.
It's fantastic. Can be found with an Internet search.
Robert K
Hi. I have a K2600XS and I'm thinking of replacing its original
internal SCSI HD before it fails. I have a new in box vintage Seagate
"Cheetah 10K.7" 3.5" internal SCSI HD, model#: ST373207LC . Will that
work?
Is there any special procedure required for the swap, beyond
just plugging it into the existing drive's data and power cables and
screwing it into the same place? Like adding terminating resistors or
other HW, some variation on power supply, resetting any configuration
(maybe because it's more GB than the original)? How do I format the new
HD? I plan on plugging the old HD into a PC and copying its contents to
the new HD before installing the new HD, but maybe plugging both into
the K2600XS lets me us a builtin utility to transfer the old
contents.
Thanks for your insights.
Leota Daugherty leotadaugherty@yahoo.com [KurzList]
2017-08-11 20:18:31 UTC
Permalink
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 8/11/17, ***@theluthers.net [KurzList] <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [KL] Replacement SCSI HDs
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, August 11, 2017, 8:33 PM


 









Jacob,

Since
you've got the SCSI2SD v6, do you know if the mounting
holes in that card are the same for a 2.5" drive? I
only ask because it would be easy to get the 2.5->3.5
plastic mounting plate/bracket for ~$3.00US.

Also, does your K2600 have the
built-in SCSI active termination board? I'd want to use
a couple/three of these in my K2500RS/XS/2600RS, and while I
haven't yet opened up the K2600R, I do know the two
K2500RS units (and almost assuredly the K2500XS) don't
have that board, and they're nearly impossible to find.


Alex -- ideas on acquiring
a handful of these?









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#yiv8287270660
a 6 19 martie 1919 Comitetul militar interaliat de la Paris a cerut trupelor maghiare din Transilvania sa se retraga pe linia de demarcatie Satu Mare-Oradea-Arad pana la incheierea pacii care va hotari noile granite politice. Proclamarea la 21 martie 1919 a Republicii Sovietice a Sfaturilor la Budapesta a condus aproape imediat la declansarea ostilitatilor la initiativa partii maghiare.
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