[KL] I have a K2500X Witha BSOD :(

[[e-mail] [KurzList]]

Hi,

I have a K2500 here that when i power it up all i get a is a blank blue screen, no other LED's light up like they should all i see is the screen light up blue and thats it.
Ive opened it up and everything is connected as it should be i appear to have voltage to all the boards at various points.

They only other thread i can find on the forums here describes it as being caused by a design flaw and that if you get a BSOD its probably blanked the flash ROM and would need reprogramming at the factory, is this true? is there anything i can do to fix it?

Thanks

Neil

[[e-mail] [KurzList]]

A BSOD or blue screen of death is caused by loose of the program data in the main engines flash rams, the LEDs would still blink, as they are controlled by the scanner which has it's own program data not located in flash.

Once the scanner receives a proper reset, and has 5VDC, and a clock. it brinks the 8 LEDs. once, twice or 3 times.


We call it death, because there is no one that has the interface to reload the boot loader program back into the flash so that the program can then be loaded, as was done at the factory or in the old service departments in Lakewood, Wa or earlier in Cerritos, Ca.


Anyway, you have some other issue, as the scanner also does not start. Does the LED in the floppy light then go out?

[[e-mail] [KurzList]]

My floppy light doesn't go out, but I don't think the floppy works anyway because I borrowed it to try on thanks, my K2500 rack and I couldn't get it to work.
There are various voltages coming into the scanner board in the main harness.
I can't find a full schematic of the scanner board to test any further voltages, I downloaded the service manual but it doesn't seem to have anything for the scan board just the IC's themselves which seem to check out voltage wise.

[werner schoenenberger [e-mail] [KurzList]]

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My floppy light doesn't go out, but I don't think the floppy works anyway because I borrowed it to try on thanks, my K2500 rack and I couldn't get it to work.‹> There are various voltages coming into the scanner board in the main harness.‹> I can't find a full schematic of the scanner board to test any further voltages, I downloaded the service manual but it doesn't seem to have anything for the scan board just the IC's themselves which seem to check out voltage wise.

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[werner schoenenberger [e-mail] [KurzList]]

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[[e-mail] [KurzList]]

The scanner is U1 on the scanner?audio board, page B13.

The light on the floppy goes out when reset ends. And the 8 red LEDS blink after the reset is done and the scanner start to function.


There are several reset that occur on different assemblies. Some are marked _reset, some marked with a bar over the word reset. This means that when the line is low, it is in the "asserted" state of resetting. When these go high, the reset is over and the line is now high, or normal operating state or not resetting.


Some reset marking do not have a _ or a bar over. This means that the line is high when resetting and low when not. What ever is marked is the ASSERTED state and if no bar the asserted state is high, so low is normal operating state.


The reset originates in the power supply. There is also a power okay signal from the power supply. Both are needed for reset to toggle.


Note also that there is reset B and reset A.


The two style of notations used on these schematics, because two different engines designed the digital and the analog sections. Tim Thompson and Hal Chamberlain. Tim used the underscore and Hal the bar over the asserted state.


Also, the scanner can run without the main engine. There is machine level diagnostic hidden in the scanner, used in manufacturing. If you hold down 4, 5, 6 and power up, the scanner goes into a diagnostic without using the display. This diagnostic uses the 8 LEDs as a binary code display. Pressing any key or button will cause different LEDs to light and pushing ip any slider or wheel will display O to 255 in 8 bit binary.


All the scanner needs is good 5v, reset to toggle and a clock. The 5 volts digital must be clean. If it is slightly low, the big cap is bad in the power supply. If wiggling it caused the 5VDC or its ripple voltage to change, it is bad.

[[e-mail] [KurzList]]

Thanks, I dont see any 5volt input pin on U1 only 5V Ref on pin 71 (Labelled AVcc) pins 68/69 (VrefADC) and on the "DEBUG" J703 6Pin2Rw.1SP at the top of the drawing.
So by the fact that i'm getting no LED's at all I need to check for 5V but where do i need to test for this?

Thanks

Neil

[[e-mail] [KurzList]]

ok, I'm blind ! (sorry)
I found the 5v (pin 72) which has 4.88v present, switching my DVM to AC shows barley anything 0.10 and decreasing VAC so i'm presuming no ripple.
How do i test the reset lines?
Where is the power ok signal on the IC and should this just be 5v ?

Sorry but my experience with testing digital electronics is next to zero but I can read schematics ok (when my eyes are working) and test things when I am helped with some "how to" info.
Thanks very much for your help so far !

Neil

[[e-mail] [KurzList]]

ok I found the resets working ok using a scope (power looks ok without any ripple too) is 4.88v enough or does it need to be closer to 5v?

I changed out the PLD's for a new set just to be sure but that didnt help at all.

Thanks !

Neil

[[e-mail] [KurzList]]

Ok seeing as everything was checking out ok on the Scanner board but I was still not getting any LED's light up I decided to try another scanner board.
I managed to get one from an ebay seller and fitted it today and would you believe it I now get LED's !

However they flash 4 times on power up, which according to the service manual meand the batteries are low, i just checked them and they are not low so thats a little confusing.

Also the screen is still fully populated with pixels as if the contrast is at maximum so I cant see anything on it.
the service manual suggests that you can adjust the contrast by holding the enter button and rotating the dial but this has no effect.
Also the service manual says if you power up holding number keys 4, 5 and 6 you should be able to hard reset but because i cant see whats going on with the screen i cant really see whats going on.

Powering up holding down -/+ 0 and Clear seems to put it into scanner diagnostic mode which makes the LED's turn green and pushing keys and some buttons makes the LED's flash, holding them again makes all the LED's turn red

Here's a quick video to show the behavior:
https://photos.google.com/u/1/photo/AF1QipMi4wrPEFihxNIkZB24EeirtYV4Yu4N3CcChHsc https://photos.google.com/u/1/photo/AF1QipMi4wrPEFihxNIkZB24EeirtYV4Yu4N3CcChHsc

Looking at page 5-4 of the service manual pages some suggestions about a coarse adjustment of the LCD see this image:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WQwpVJLqG1hD4-GjpU4WAnhil_MXeSF1 https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WQwpVJLqG1hD4-GjpU4WAnhil_MXeSF1

It suggests that TP13 should give a voltage of around -8v but i'm seeing -12v and the trip pot makes no difference at all to this when adjusting.

Ive attached the service manuals here foir reference:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Z60I2z0DcNtVsoBeGgkZ3Ibv6pe5ASur https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Z60I2z0DcNtVsoBeGgkZ3Ibv6pe5ASur

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks

Neil

[Larry Satterlee [e-mail] [KurzList]]

-----Maybe this will work - - when you power - up the k-2500 does the led's light up for your mode buttons( for example when you push the program mode button it lights up)? If so push the master mode then push the right arrow once . Then push the bottom arrow button 4 times that should put you on contrast adjust .turn your alpha knob to see if it works. Its worth a try . Good luck!! ---------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/3/18, ***@yahoo.com [KurzList] <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [KL] Re: I have a K2500X Witha BSOD :(
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2018, 3:10 PM


 









Ok seeing as everything was checking out ok on the
Scanner board but I was still not getting any LED's
light up I decided to try another scanner board.
I managed to get one from an ebay seller and
fitted it today and would you believe it I now get LED's
!

However they flash 4
times on power up, which according to the service manual
meand the batteries are low, i just checked them and they
are not low so thats a little confusing.

Also the screen is still fully populated with
pixels as if the contrast is at maximum so I cant see
anything on it.
the service manual suggests
that you can adjust the contrast by holding the enter button
and rotating the dial but this has no effect.
Also the service manual says if you power up
holding number keys 4, 5 and 6 you should be able to hard
reset but because i cant see whats going on with the screen
i cant really see whats going on.

Powering up holding down -/+ 0 and Clear seems
to put it into scanner diagnostic mode which makes the
LED's turn green and pushing keys and some buttons makes
the LED's flash, holding them again makes all the
LED's turn red

Here's a quick video to show the
behavior:
https://photos.google.com/u/1/photo/AF1QipMi4wrPEFihxNIkZB24EeirtYV4Yu4N3CcChHsc

Looking at page 5-4 of the
service manual pages some suggestions about a coarse
adjustment of the LCD see this image:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WQwpVJLqG1hD4-GjpU4WAnhil_MXeSF1

It suggests that TP13 should
give a voltage of around -8v but i'm seeing -12v and the
trip pot makes no difference at all to this when
adjusting.

Ive attached the
service manuals here foir reference:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Z60I2z0DcNtVsoBeGgkZ3Ibv6pe5ASur

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks

Neil









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[Neil Hester [e-mail] [KurzList]]

Thanks Larry I'll give it a try. I just remembered the keyboard used to have a KDFX board installed and maybe the higher voltage was something to do with that. Does anyone have the KDFX installation guide so I can see what it involved and maybe I can undo any voltage mods that were made. 
Thanks
Neil
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

[[e-mail] [KurzList]]

Here's the installation manual for the KDFX:

http://theluthers.net/docs/Kurzweil%20KDFX%20Installation%20Manual.pdf http://theluthers.net/docs/Kurzweil%20KDFX%20Installation%20Manual.pdf

A couple of things -- did you remove the KDFX board without installing the 3.x OS and at least the base objects? If so, do you still have the KDFX board?

[[e-mail] [KurzList]]

Thanks, yeah I did find the manual after posting and thought i replied by email to mu post but it doesnt seem to have masde it here.
I didnt downgrade everything before removing the KDFX as I thought I'd do that afterwards which should have still been possible the unit would just partially boot but should have been enought to get in and install the non KDFX stuff.
The lack of screen has thwarted that though. I do still have the KDFX in my Rack K2500 so it looks like im possibly going to have to strip that apart again to get this done. :(

[[e-mail] [KurzList]]

Ok this screen voltage thing is really bugging me now.
The coarse voltage adjustment trim pot makes no difference at all to the screen voltage measured at J917 pin4 (page 8 of he KDFX install guide).
But if i measure across it with the init powered down with an Ohm-meter its does work, so why isnt it having any effect on the voltage like it should?
Looks like im now goign to have to start digging back into schematics :(

I have my K2500R with the KDFX board in it here now stripped down and ready to put it all back again too but i really didnt want to have to do that and i would be suprised if it made any difference to the screen.

Larry you idea did not work sadly because none of the buttons work (probably because i dont have the right OS version and ojects installed.